What's it like to catch billions in fraud? We asked William Black, a bank whistleblower turned UMKC professor of economics and law.
What's it like being a whistleblower?
If you see something say something. Well we saw something, we said something, and things got really weird at that point. You would expect any honest boss would react by saying, 'Oh thank you for telling me that we're screwing up our loans,' or, 'Thank you for going after people who are really powerful that could ruin your career.' But exactly the opposite happened.
What was at risk due to the fraud you and your cohorts at Bank Whistleblowers United uncovered?
The savings and loan debacle was about $150 billion. The Enron era frauds at peak were about $7 trillion. Seven trillion is a thousand billion. And this crisis in terms of lost GDP, economists best estimate is $24.3 trillion. On top of that, 9.3 million Americans lost their jobs. Another 5 million American jobs that would have been created were not created.
Why should the public and policy makers listen to Bank Whistleblowers United?
The consequences are so catastrophic that we have to try to do something to stop the next one. We looked around and unlike the savings and loan debacle -- where we convicted over a thousand people of felonies, and we are talking about major people, people who were senior in the organization -- there are absolutely zero prosecutions of any of the leaders of the three fraud epidemics that caused this crisis.
What is the outcome of the 2008 collapse that followed fraudulent lending?
Even if you did not lose your job, everyone knows people who lost their jobs. Blue collar people know them, but people with fancy white collar jobs do as well. There is vastly greater fear, insecurity in the United States of America now and we can see that in our politics.
You have said the system is rigged. What do you mean by that?
Both parties now say the system is rigged. Much of my work and much of what the Bank Whistleblowers United do is say yes, in fact we will put that in print. This is not rhetoric. This is an accurate description except that we can tell you from the inside exactly how it was rigged, how it is still rigged, what needs to be fixed and how to fix it. We have not fixed the way that it was rigged and so we are vulnerable for the next one. And again if the next one increases at the rate we have been seeing prices increase, it will have catastrophic results in the United States, and of course the world.
On that note, you have tried to tell the presidential candidates about your research and findings. Where does that stand with the presidential candidates, specifically Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump?
None of the major parties have been willing to sign on. The Green Party's Jill Stein is the only party at this juncture. But we continue. And will continue with them to at least this election cycle.
Why is it important that you get through to lawmakers?
We can't afford the next crisis. This is the real short time line in a few years. Savings and loan debacle - $150 billion. Enron era fraud - $7 trillion. Current crisis - $24.3 trillion. Look at that rate. We can't afford the next crisis and that's just money. That does not include all of the people who lose their jobs, the people who lose their homes.
So knowing the aftermath - how you were ostracized, forced out of your jobs - would you blow the whistle again?
Every single one of us would do it again without hesitation. Even though we know with absolute certainty it's not going to work. It's something weird that your parents put into you. That thing about no you are not allowed to go along with evil. You may not succeed against it, that's not your duty. Your duty is to try to stop it.
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Terra Hall can be reached at terra.hall@kshb.com.
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